Selenium Blog - 2020 Archive

June 1, 2020 by diemol

Selenium 4.0 Alpha 6 is out!

We are very pleased to announce the release of Selenium 4.0 Alpha 6.

All the information can be seen in different tweets from the project contributors, here they are all in one place:

Happy hacking!

Tags

selenium

Categories

general releases
May 9, 2020 by Harsha

Public Project Meeting - May 07, 2020

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on May 07, 2020 (times are on IST).

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

The next meeting will be on May 21, 2020, 4:30 PM CET.


adamgoucher 8:00 PM

alright. welcome back. time for another fortnightly chat about the project.

Simon Stewart 8:01 PM

:wave:

Diego Molina 8:01 PM

:wave:

Sri Harsha 8:01 PM

:wave:

adamgoucher 8:02 PM

some general project statistics; open issues: 391 open pull request: 68 (which is the lowest i think ive seen either of those numbers before)

8:03

agenda wise, this is going to be more loosey-goosey than normal as i’m swamped with day job so ignoring things. we’ll see is that is a good thing or not.

8:03

any overall announcements? new people on committees, have the commit bit, etc?

Simon Stewart 8:04 PM

I’ve landed the update to OpenTracing, which unblocks me

8:04

Next step is to wire the tracing into the Docker support And then pick up the websocket forwarding

8:05

(Which, to be fair, is “mostly done”)

adamgoucher 8:05 PM

heh. the last 20% takes the other 80% of the time :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 8:05 PM

The Pareto Principle in action

8:06

I’d be happy pushing a6 before the next meeting

adamgoucher 8:06 PM

what do we think is missing from a6 now?

Simon Stewart 8:06 PM

It’s been a while since we did a release, and there’s progress in there

8:07

I’d dearly love the websocket forwarding, but I can live without it @diemol landed the first work with Fail Safe for some more robustness in the Grid

8:08

I think @barancev is also making some progress switching the underlying HTTP engine again

adamgoucher 8:08 PM

looks like there was a bunch of plumbing / dependencies updated in the last week especially with .net and python

Simon Stewart 8:08 PM

@jimevans and @AutomatedTester know more than I do

Jim Evans 8:10 PM

yes, the .NET bindings build using bazel should now work cross-platform. you should be able to run .NET tests using bazel test (with caveats, which i’ve yet to fully document). it kinda works within VS code, but one can for certain develop using Visual Studio 2019 on Windows, and Visual Studio for Mac on MacOS.

adamgoucher 8:11 PM (still breaks my head to write .net code on mac)

8:11

what more was needed for the http engine stuff? i thought there was a flag in there already?

8:12

or did we change it again, again

Simon Stewart 8:13 PM

The underlying library didn’t support http/2 or unix domain sockets, despite it being possible

adamgoucher 8:14 PM

so do we want/need to wait for that work to be done-ish before doing a6? so far that sounds like the only thing that will be confusing to release partially implemented

Simon Stewart 8:14 PM

Nah.

adamgoucher 8:15 PM

scans commits in another window

Simon Stewart 8:15 PM

As long as it’s in before we start on the betas, we’ll be fine

adamgoucher 8:15 PM

a question i know we dont have an answer for, but do we have a gut feel for how many more a’s there are before we start the b’s?

Simon Stewart 8:16 PM

The major outstanding features are: websocket forwarding graph-ql support

adamgoucher 8:16 PM

thats not that horrid of a list. its been much worse

Simon Stewart 8:17 PM

We’ve been chipping away at it

adamgoucher 8:18 PM

so if a6 is within the next 2 weeks, do we have a trigger condition for releasing it?

Simon Stewart 8:18 PM

No trigger condition

8:18

Other than “someone updates the changelog”, I guess

adamgoucher 8:19 PM

do we want to say ‘a6 is next tuesday’ so that all the maintainers are ready to build and tag everything? (feel like we can’t magically do it all from ci but could be making that up)

Simon Stewart 8:20 PM

The graphql piece is to support the ui, so strictly speaking we don’t really need it, but it keeps things flexible

8:20

@AutomatedTester, @p0deje, @jimevans, @titusfortner, @harsha509 Cool with shipping an alpha next week?

Jim Evans 8:21 PM

+1 from me.

Sri Harsha 8:21 PM

Yes

Diego Molina 8:22 PM

how are we handling the numbers in JS, JS is already in a7, right?

Simon Stewart 8:22 PM

“alpha-n+1”

Sri Harsha 8:22 PM

Yes @diemol . Do you have any suggestions @corevo . He should be releasing the next alpha as i know.

Alex Rodionov 8:23 PM

+1 from me

Tomer Steinfeld 8:25 PM

JS has been in alpha for a long time because of historical reasons

adamgoucher 8:25 PM

ok. so thats covers the bulk of the pressing tech stuff. other stuff that could be discussed; when is the next sfc call? (if its happened in the last two weeks, anything to report) did anyone pick up the ball to talk to miki about the go bindings? seconf india seconf us state of the se-ide into the main repo

Tomer Steinfeld 8:25 PM

I think we can land stable 4.0 together, but I don’t see a reason we should release 4 alphas together

adamgoucher 8:26 PM

(or we can keep talking about js too. but that list is just my remaining things)

Marcus Merrell 8:26 PM

the PLC call happened on Tuesday, it was just me and Jim. We mostly talked about conferences, and we were going to follow up with Simon about the status of the Code of Conduct

Simon Stewart 8:27 PM

Uhh… I thought @AutomatedTester was running with the CoC stuff.

Marcus Merrell 8:27 PM

at this point India is still slated to happen in September, same venue. I don’t know the latest about speakers or progress or anything like that

Simon Stewart 8:27 PM

It’s entirely possible I am mistaken

adamgoucher 8:27 PM

i thought david was on that too

Tomer Steinfeld 8:27 PM

Is there an update from the SFC about the MS store?

Marcus Merrell 8:28 PM

ok, I thought David was on the MS Store issue, and not the CoC, but it wouldn’t be the first time I was mistaken

Diego Molina 8:28 PM

why don’t we take the CoC draft we have, add it to the new site, and iterate on it?

Simon Stewart 8:28 PM

We were going to get a review and some guidance from Sage Sharp

Marcus Merrell 8:29 PM

for Chicago, we’ve got a verbal understanding that the venue will allow us to reschedule the conference for sometime next year with no fees. We’ve already given them a somewhat hefty deposit, and while we could likely fight to get that back, we’d rather just have it next April or October–we’re going to make that decision in late May/early June

Diego Molina 8:30 PM

for the SeleniumConf website, @andrewmkrug has joined the Selenium GitHub org, and he is helping us to push the site code to a private repo

Marcus Merrell 8:30 PM

for the Fall, we’re considering an online-only conference, and we’re waiting for a few pieces of data to come in over the next couple weeks, around TestBash and SauceCon, to gauge how they went, ideas for optimization, pros/cons, do’s don’t’s, etc

Andrew Krug 8:30 PM

was added to #selenium-tlc by Diego Molina.

Marcus Merrell 8:32 PM

I spoke to Deb (from SFC) quite a bit on Friday about tips and pointers for an online-only conference, and I’ve started to develop some opinions for how it should be done. I haven’t yet, however, come up with a firm position on the pricing model for sponsors or attendees–I definitely want to offer all the track sessions/keynotes for free, and offer a paid tier for “something” else, like if people want T-shirts or something else, but it would likely be a model where they pay what they want (to support the project), and the swag they get depends on the tier they buy into

8:33

I’m waiting to hear more from Richard Bradshaw before beginning that discussion, probably during our bi-weekly Conference conference call, on May 28th

adamgoucher 8:35 PM

so. CoC — when can we get the review and guidance? if its more than ‘not in may’ we should likely throw it up and start the iteration process

Simon Stewart 8:36 PM

It depends on Sage’s availability, and that of the people working on the CoC

adamgoucher 8:37 PM

(which, sounds like we’re not quite sure of who those are from our end)

Simon Stewart 8:37 PM

Last I checked, @mmerrell, @AutomatedTester, @diemol, @jimevans and I were all interested in being involved

8:38

From memory.

adamgoucher 8:38 PM

so the nebulous items seem to be; determine who is actually on the coc stuff

Simon Stewart 8:38 PM

Agreed

adamgoucher 8:38 PM

doh! no editing. and, determine who is actually doing the ms store stuff

8:40

which means, for the next meeting; - release a6 (a7 of js) - report who is point and who is assisting with the CoC - report who is leading the ms store stuff

8:41

anyone else have anything they want / need to discuss in public?

Simon Stewart 8:41 PM

I’m good

8:41

Though perhaps we should figure out who owns what on that list I hold the build bacon this time

Diego Molina 8:42 PM

maybe we can record how a release is done? and from that I can write docs

Simon Stewart 8:43 PM

I’ll walk you through the process We did have it written up here: https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/wiki/Releasing-Selenium

adamgoucher 8:43 PM

from the april 23 meeting, looks like @AutomatedTester is the store person Screen Shot 2020-05-07 at 11.12.57 AM.png Screen Shot 2020-05-07 at 11.12.57 AM.png

David Burns 2 days ago

I am waiting on replies from SFC. I chased up yesterday. Have meeting with MS next week

adamgoucher 8:45 PM

anyone volunteering for CoC lead?

Diego Molina 8:46 PM

ah nice, the release process is written, we “just” need to update it

Simon Stewart 8:46 PM

The java one doesn’t seem wildly inaccurate

adamgoucher 8:48 PM

which means, for the next meeting; - release a6 (a7 of js) – simon - report who is point and who is assisting with the CoC – tbd - report who is leading the ms store stuff - david?

Alexei Barantsev 8:49 PM

sorry to be late, I’m +1 for the next alpha

adamgoucher 8:50 PM

so if there isnt anything else, i say we call this thing done and do it all again in a fortnight.

8:52

slack says no one is furiously typing so, see all y’all in two weeks. as ever, if there is something you want discussed, message me directly or just drop it here for us to pickup

Diego Molina 8:53 PM

thank you @adamgoucher!

Simon Stewart 8:54 PM

Thanks, @adamgoucher!

David Burns 9:24 PM

Argh… missed it again!!!

9:28

For CoC, I keep dropping the ball on this one. I have been busy with work but hopefully can do something in the next two weeks

Tags

slack meeting tlc

Categories

general governance
April 24, 2020 by diemol

Public Project Meeting - April 23, 2020

Continuing the series of bi-weekly public project meetings, here is the timeline of the meeting held on April 23, 2020 (times are on CET).

Meetings are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

The next meeting will be on May 7, 2020, 4:30 PM CET.


Diego Molina 4:32 PM

Hi all, we are going to start the next project status meeting in a moment

for now, the agenda would be:

  • project stats: +/- issues, prs
  • any staffing announcements
  • whats been worked on (seems things are picking up again)
  • whats next
  • when do we plan the next release
  • SeleniumConf status (for India and Chicago), and its website

Simon Stewart 4:32 PM

Does someone want to announce it on the main #selenium channel too?

Diego Molina 4:33 PM

I can do that

Simon Stewart 4:33 PM

Thanks

Diego Molina 4:34 PM

before we start, does anyone want to add a topic?

4:36

maybe we can also discuss the Go bindings again

but I will take that silence as a “no more topics”

First topic, project stats: +/- issues, prs…

Simon Stewart 4:37 PM

@AutomatedTester probably knows those

Diego Molina 4:37 PM

Since a few weeks we are under 65 PRs and 400 issues, we made progress but not as significant as in the previous weeks

I am looking at a couple of OSS projects that build a dashboard so we have a better overview

Simon Stewart 4:38 PM

It’s the law of diminishing returns. We’re starting to hit actual issues and things that need thinking about

Diego Molina 4:41 PM

I experimented during the weekend with https://chaoss.github.io/grimoirelab/ and https://github.com/cncf/devstats, I liked the first one more, but we need to find a place where to deploy it for free Recently I bumped into https://github.com/google/triage-party, which could be also a good one to have an overview (edited)

4:42

all this in the spirit of having a clear project status for everyone

I can try to have something working for the next meeting, does anyone have more comments or should we move to the next topic?

Simon Stewart 4:42 PM

No comments from me

Diego Molina 4:43 PM

next topic: any staffing announcements, what did you mean by this @adamgoucher?

Simon Stewart 4:43 PM

@harsha509 has joined the team :slightly_smiling_face:

adamgoucher 4:43 PM

anyone get the commit bit, step away from a committee, etc.

Diego Molina 4:44 PM

well, @tourdedave mentioned he does not have the bandwidth to be in the TLC (which is my fault because I added him without asking, in the spirit of having someone from the IDE)

4:45

we could just leave it as it is or ask around if someone is interested?

Simon Stewart 4:45 PM

Having a strong owner for the IDE would be really helpful

Marcus Merrell 4:47 PM

I’m afraid unless he or Tomer change their mind, I’m not sure anyone exists who could fit the bill

we maintain really strong contacts with Dave.. that might have to be good enough for now

Diego Molina 4:48 PM

the TLC has no size limit, so things could continue as they are, right?

Simon Stewart 4:49 PM

They could

And it sounds a bit unfair to continue to lean on @tourdedave after he’s stepped away

Diego Molina 4:51 PM

what the IDE needs for now is support from the PLC, since Microsoft wants to help with having the extension on Edge (new), but I think @AutomatedTester asked to be introduced to them, not sure what the status is there

support as in, sort out legal stuff for creating an account on the MS store

Simon Stewart 4:52 PM

That won’t be hard. Someone needs to message the selenium@conservancy.org

Tomer Steinfeld 4:52 PM

I introduced @AutomatedTester I think the next step is to have someone from the SFC create an account

To do that we need PLC stamp

So that the SFC will do it

Simon Stewart 4:52 PM

@mmerrell want to run with that, or shall we ask @AutomatedTester to do it?

Titus Fortner 4:52 PM

What does that give the project though, if it isn’t the electron implementation?

Marcus Merrell 4:52 PM

I can run with it

Simon Stewart 4:52 PM

I’m happy with @AutomatedTester on point here :slightly_smiling_face:

Titus Fortner 4:52 PM

Not saying we should ever turn down help

Just curious

Marcus Merrell 4:53 PM

He might have better contacts than me

Simon Stewart 4:53 PM

@titusfortner support on Edge, and maybe someone from MS will step into the gap

Diego Molina 4:53 PM

to have the IDE working on the new Edge

Simon Stewart 4:53 PM

And also, and this is important, IDE working on Edge (as @diemol says)

Titus Fortner 4:55 PM

I thought all chromium apps worked already. I should actually use it :)

Diego Molina 4:55 PM

could we leave as an action item to have @mmerrell (since he is in the PLC) chat with @AutomatedTester in case David needs help with the PLC? and have a status for the next meeting?

Simon Stewart 4:56 PM

Sure

Diego Molina 4:57 PM

you ok with that @mmerrell?

while he answers, should we move slowly to the next topic?

Marcus Merrell 5:00 PM

yeah, I’m ok with that

Diego Molina 5:00 PM

next topic, whats been worked on (seems things are picking up again)

Simon Stewart 5:00 PM

I’ve some diffs lined up

5:01

  • Streamlining how we manage cli flags and configuration, so that things included on the ClassPath get picked up too
  • WebSocket proxying
  • A patch that I started at SeConf (I know) to get relative locators working a little more nicely
  • I also have experimental support for pinning browser versions (and their drivers) in the bazel build, which resolves some issues that folks may have

When I get some bandwidth, landing those would be nice

After that, I’ll dig into the .Net stuff now that @jimevans has it working on macOS and see whether there’s some jiggery-pokery with select we can do so that bazel test //… will work the way we expect it to

Oh, I’ve also started wrapping OpenTelemetry with our own APIs so we do an update without too much chaos

0.2.0 -> 0.3.0 is messy

Diego Molina 5:04 PM

From my side:

  • Docker images working with the Grid 4 Alpha 5, only supporting standalone and hub/node for now
  • Working on adding support for retries in the Grid, issue #8167
  • Also, added tags and categories to the blog in selenium.dev, so now all governance related meetings can be seen at https://www.selenium.dev/categories/governance/

Marcus Merrell 5:04 PM

ditto me for the “quiesce” feature, in terms of “working since SeConf” and “when I get some bandwidth”

Jim Evans 5:05 PM

@simonstewart let me know what you’d like to see here in terms of .NET.

Marcus Merrell 5:05 PM

the bulk of it is complete, still do to:

actually spin down the nodes

5:05

write unit tests

Simon Stewart 5:06 PM

I’ve still been pondering on how we make it possible to spin the grid up in an ad-hoc order

And I keep coming back to the fact that life would be easier if we had a backbone of a “message bus”, a “key/value store”, and a “service registry”

We definitely have the message bus already

And the session-map is perilously close to being a key/value store

Diego Molina 5:07 PM

conceptually I wanted to cover that in the support for retries issue, because we cannot expect the docker containers to start always in the same order

Simon Stewart 5:07 PM

Right

Regularly has support for a successful retry and an unsuccessful retry

But we can’t build everything on that :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 5:08 PM

I want to tackle that first, so at some point containers can be used in other envs

between https://jodah.net/failsafe/fallback/ and https://github.com/resilience4j/resilience4j I am liking more the first one (edited)

Simon Stewart 5:08 PM

You’re writing the code, and I like both of them :slightly_smiling_face:

5:09

Fallback is also used by an alternative netty-based http client

We may need to switch from AsynHttpClient because it doesn’t support http2 (or unix domain sockets)

5:10

I’ve been looking at io.projectreactor.netty:reactor-netty:0.9.6.RELEASE and I think @barancev may have some code

Or he may not :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 5:10 PM

I guess we can come back to that when some written code from my side actually works :slightly_smiling_face:

Simon Stewart 5:11 PM

Well, it means that looking at failsafe fallback is a better bet

Which leans into your preference

So it’s more a datapoint than anything else

Diego Molina 5:12 PM

sounds good

ok, should we move to the next topic, so we can hopefully finish on time

Simon Stewart 5:12 PM

SGTM

Diego Molina 5:12 PM

next topic is, what’s next & when do we plan the next release

Simon Stewart 5:12 PM

Next release? I’d like a banner feature in. WebSockets and CDP across the Grid would be it, for me

5:13

Or we can just ship what we have

Marcus Merrell 5:13 PM

that would be amazing

Simon Stewart 5:13 PM

It’s a SMOP

Simple Matter of Programming

Diego Molina 5:13 PM

we have 267 commits after the alpha 5 release, sounds like there could be something we can release?

Simon Stewart 5:13 PM

So I think the choice we have to make is “timed releases” or “feature releases”

Marcus Merrell 5:14 PM

I thought SMOP might be “Simple Matter of Pfantasy”

Simon Stewart 5:14 PM

git log selenium-4.0.0-alpha-5..HEAD --oneline java

5:15

HA! 098eb99991

5:15

We landed support for configs via TOML….

Diego Molina 5:16 PM

true, what if we try to have the retries thing, docs for toml, and maybe have a release before the next status meeting?

Simon Stewart 5:16 PM

Looks like lots of little fixes

DOCS?

:wink:

I can write an info section for configuration

Diego Molina 5:17 PM

that is what I was thinking

Simon Stewart 5:17 PM

kk

File an issue and assign it to me

(At some point, I need to do my day job)

Diego Molina 5:17 PM

before the beta some of us need to make those docs a bit nicer for Se4

5:18

I will do that then

Simon Stewart 5:18 PM

Thank you

Shall we mark some issues as “4.0a6”?

Diego Molina 5:19 PM

Maybe it is too much, not sure

Marcus Merrell 5:19 PM

my offer still stands to help with issue hygiene, I just need permissions

Simon Stewart 5:19 PM

Or, perhaps, let’s work on our features, and next meeting ship 4.0a6 regardless of where we are

@mmerrell I’ll fix that up for you now

And @harsha509 too

Sri Harsha 5:20 PM Js bindings is already at alpha7. We can try to implement relative locators(which is pending in JS bindings) and release in next meeting.

Simon Stewart 5:21 PM

That’d be great

Thank you

Diego Molina 5:21 PM

issue for TOML https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/issues/8232

Simon Stewart 5:22 PM

Thank you

Diego Molina 5:22 PM

ok, two topics left

first is, SeleniumConf status (for India and Chicago), and its website

Marcus Merrell 5:23 PM

I’ll see if I can get a website update from Bill McGee now that it’s a bit later on the west coast

Diego Molina 5:23 PM

so India will happen (:crossed_fingers: ) in September, and Chicago in November, does anyone know any news related to that?

Simon Stewart 5:24 PM

@mmerrell you should have an invitation from GH to join the SeleniumHQ org. Am slightly surprised you’re not a member already :slightly_smiling_face:

Marcus Merrell 5:26 PM

the conference status is currently:

  • We’re waiting until around May 15th to make a decision, but
  • While we believe the conference could happen in November, it’s Bill McGee’s observation that people right now just don’t seem to be interested in buying tickets, submitting papers, or writing checks to sponsor in-person conferences right now
  • Given that we’re having trouble motivating people to take the actions they need to take now (the previous point), it’s hard to imagine how we can feel confident in a November conference in the near future
  • What I’m saying is that, things in the community need to happen in May in order to hold a conference in November, and I don’t have even the barest hint that those things will happen

so, at this point we believe we will be able to recover most/all funds from the Holiday Inn, based on Sauce’s experience with the Fairmont in Austin, and TestBash’s experience in Detroit

5:27

but we’re going to wait a few more weeks, a) because we can, and b) in case there’s some kind of earth-shattering news that comes out that changes the picture

Simon Stewart 5:27 PM

The UK has been told that social distancing will remain necessary until next year

Alexei Barantsev 5:28 PM

@simonstewart I don’t have any new code for http client yet, just an item on my todo list

Marcus Merrell 5:28 PM

as you might have seen, our leadership much more optimistic :face_palm:

Simon Stewart 5:28 PM

@barancev ok. There’s no rush

Diego Molina 5:29 PM

that’s a great update @mmerrell, thanks

something else I wanted to ask is, if we could have at some point the SeleniumConf website code and assets also under the SeleniumHQ GitHub org

Simon Stewart 5:29 PM

Totes up for that

5:30 I’ve another meeting to go to

Marcus Merrell 5:30 PM

me too. that’s where things get sensitive

Simon Stewart 5:30 PM

Toodle pip

Marcus Merrell 5:30 PM

but I think we need to head in that direction

Diego Molina 5:30 PM

and as part of this, add the general conference guidelines to the governance doc

Marcus Merrell 5:30 PM

yep, that’s on my plate

Diego Molina 5:30 PM

that’s fine, we can stop here as we have no more time

5:31

but we can keep the topic in our head for informal discussions

Simon Stewart 5:31 PM

You can carry on without me. I’m fine with that :slightly_smiling_face:

Diego Molina 5:31 PM

and have a status of it in the next meeting

5:32

to respect people’s time, we will end the meeting here, I will upload the minutes to selenium.dev, and prepare an agenda for the next one

5:32

thank you everyone!

Tags

slack meeting tlc

Categories

general governance
April 19, 2020 by diemol

Public Project Meeting - April 9, 2020

As an initiative to bring more transparency to the Selenium project, we are now holding bi-weekly public project meetings. These are written meetings which are held on the #selenium-tlc channel on Selenium Slack.

Here is the timeline of the meeting held on April 9, 2020 (times are on CET).

The next meeting will be on April 23, 2020, 4:30 PM CET.


Simon Stewart 4:31 PM @adamgoucher there needs to be a calendar invite for these things

adamgoucher 4:32 PM well, originally the idea was that people could manage their own calendars but if you send me which email you want it attached to i can add you to the one ive been putting people on who wanted an invite

4:35 anyhow; here’s the rough approximation of an agenda. we’ll see how it goes;

  • anything governance-y that needs to be discussed in public (not limited to, but including public announcement of people getting the commit bit, etc.)
  • status of prs
  • status of issues
  • status of se project related events (india, chicago are the big ones)
  • next release status and/or timeline
  • go around the metaphorical table on how people are doing against things they signed up for
  • anything that needs to get sussed out in public (from reading the channel, the main thing that came up is the js discussion)
  • open the floor for other discussions either instigated by ’project people

4:38 anything governance-y that needs to be discussed in public (not limited to, but including public announcement of people getting the commit bit, etc.)

Diego Molina 4:38 PM if there is time, let’s add the recent topic of adding go bindings

adamgoucher 4:38 PM has there been an sfc call recently? (i cant remember when they are)

Diego Molina 4:40 PM governance related, I’d say: we need to define where we put these meetings minutes, how we announce them widely (do we need?), and that we still need a code of conduct

adamgoucher 4:41 PM ok. @diemol pester my monday morning if i haven’t figured out how to get them onto the blog by then

Diego Molina 4:41 PM So, meetings minutes… we can put them in the same format as a blog entry, and we can tag/label them so they are publicly accessible I can do that, I would just need the contents of the previous meetings, and also add small instructions on how to add new ones

adamgoucher 4:43 PM i think we just start with this one. i didnt take the most excellent notes the last couple and they might have expired out the channel (havent scrolled up to check)

Diego Molina 4:43 PM ok, so I will start doing that with this onee

adamgoucher 4:44 PM who is the point person for the code of conduct

Diego Molina 4:44 PM @AutomatedTester said something about being working on it? 4:44 but we currently have a draft, why don’t we use that draft and iterate on it?

adamgoucher 4:45 PM makes sense. as we did with the other doc

4:46 ok. next thing on the list is status of prs. which @AutomatedTester has been culling like a mad man over the last week and we’re down the 62

4:47 followed closely by status of issues and there is now 402 which i think he is also attacking (but i dont have a number from 2 weeks ago)

Diego Molina 4:48 PM perhaps we should set up a project health status dashboard I saw a couple of OSS projects that could do that

adamgoucher 4:49 PM could be interesting. of course we could also then get into wild semantic discussions around ‘what’ healthy is. :smile:

4:50 next; status of se project related events (india, chicago are the big ones)

4:51 i saw that seconf india has been moved to september. how is chicago looking?

Diego Molina 4:51 PM I think no one is around who could reply that question

David Burns 4:52 PM I also think it’s too early to comment. Chicago is in lockdown at the moment for the foreseeable

4:52 we also need to be see how many venues are still around when we come out of our homes

Isaul Vargas 4:53 PM As for big cities in the US, only by End of May can we know if restrictions will be lifted due to testing and lowering the curve.

adamgoucher 4:53 PM (it has more of a recurring agenda item more than me seeing someone who can answer)

4:54 and restrictions will be lifted in june and clamped back down in july. as is the way in a pandemic. (and really, will be until we get a vaccine)

4:55 next item; next release status and/or timeline. @simonstewart?

Simon Stewart 4:55 PM India has been moved to later in the year

4:56 We’re running the 4.0 release in the open: https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/projects/2

4:56 The config stuff won’t be too horrible. I’m quite liking the fact that TOML opens up some options

adamgoucher 4:56 PM yup. so is your plan still ‘push the button on stage to do the release and retire for your daily beverage’ or are we aiming for a same-ish part of the calender

Simon Stewart 4:56 PM When we ship, I stand down

4:57 I’d still like to get the betas out soon

4:57 But there are some big pieces missing before we can get to that point

4:58 The big one being the CDP stuff across Grid, which I’ve many of the moving parts for in various branches on my machine

Diego Molina 4:58 PM when I look at the things on the “to do” column, maybe 80% is Grid, right?

5:00 if so, it is something that calms me down because at least (from my side), I am having slowly more time to work on the code

5:00 but there are a couple of things on that list which concern me: IDE to the monorepo (and build it with bazel) + implement CDP and relative locators in JS

David Burns 5:01 PM I am doing the IDE to mono repo now

5:01 relative locators in JS should be easy, I can do it or talk @harsha509 through it

Diego Molina 5:02 PM but in the IDE, what is our approach in terms of browser extension vs. electron

5:02 right now we could only do the browser extension, right?

David Burns 5:02 PM that is separate from the mono repo work

5:03 these are questions for @tourdedave and @corevo

Simon Stewart 5:03 PM Right now, there’s just the browser extension, but @tourdedave and @corevo did start work on the electron port

5:03 I’m not sure what kind of progress they’re making, if any

Diego Molina 5:04 PM ok, so it seems we will only focus on the browser extension for now

adamgoucher 5:07 PM ok, so to summarize; all the known to-dos are in the github project india has been shifted, but dont want to just move the target to september aiming for betas to start soon, grid cdp is really the last big hurdle until those can start

Diego Molina 5:08 PM and the JS stuff, right?

5:08 (CDP + relative locators)

adamgoucher 5:09 PM i think we can skip the next thing which is ‘how are people progressing on the stuff they signed up for’ with a ‘see the github project’

5:11 because the next thing on the list i prepared was - anything that needs to get sussed out in public which, for today, means ‘what to do about javascript’. not sure that anything got resolved the other day but i think the core of it is ‘webdriver.js is the official binding but not under the auspices of the project’ or something?

Simon Stewart 5:11 PM To reiterate feedback from other people, and my own reflections:

5:12 There is a general feeling that the selenium project should own the core of its own bindings We’ve gone from having basically no-one interested in JS to having Sri on board (@harsha509) We’ve not nailed down the overall strategy yet

5:14 Which kind of suggests not using webdriver.io’s webdriver module, but continuing to work with our own stuff

5:14 Unless that module moves under the aegis of the project

Diego Molina 5:15 PM oh, actually I was talking to @christian-bromann about it, and he manifested again his interest to help move the JS bindings to use the webdriver package, and leave things ready for someone who wants to maintain the bindings

Simon Stewart 5:15 PM And if the code for the webdriver package was in our repo, I think that’s probably what we’d do

Diego Molina 5:16 PM I am not a 100% sure that he is ok with moving the code from that package to our repo but in the worst case, would a copy/fork of the code work?

Simon Stewart 5:17 PM That seems like a bad idea

Christian Bromann 5:17 PM What is the problem of not having the webdriver binding in the Selenium repo?

Simon Stewart 5:18 PM The feedback I’ve had from several people has been that they’re deeply uncomfortable with it, and won’t approve of it

5:18 It’s not just a technical thing

5:18 There are the social aspects to consider too

Christian Bromann 5:19 PM I understand.

Diego Molina 5:20 PM well, the idea of the committees is to reach consensus in these cases, and it looks like we would never reach it for this situation

Christian Bromann 5:20 PM Well the idea of generating raw bindings based of some json files is pretty easy to reimplement and I am happy to support how it can be done.

5:22 copying over the code form WebdriverIO to Selenium is rather difficult as it depends on some other wdio utilities (logging and utility functions)

Simon Stewart 5:22 PM I do wonder how far adrift the JS bindings are

5:23 The obvious missing 4.0 features are relative locators and the CDP integration

5:23 The CDP integration isn’t nailed down properly anywhere. We’ve got access to the raw protocol, but we’ve yet to build the abstractions people would actually write against

Christian Bromann 5:23 PM Given the situation I am would be also happy to invite the Selenium JS contributor to the WebdriverIO org to ensure code access and ability to merge/review code changes.

Simon Stewart 5:24 PM Thank you

Diego Molina 5:25 PM well, then it seems JS bindings stay as they are hopefully we all find a way to make them fit for the 4.0 release

5:25 should we talk about the go bindings?

adamgoucher 5:26 PM thats the only other thing on my list

Simon Stewart 5:26 PM We can talk about Go bindings

5:27 Miki offered to donate https://github.com/tebeka/selenium to the project a while ago

5:27 I got busy and had health issues, so dropped things on the floor

5:27 Should we pick that back up again?

adamgoucher 5:28 PM is he also intending to maintain it (dunno the status of them) or is it a ‘i did a thing and dont need it anymore so someone can pick it up if they want’

Simon Stewart 5:28 PM I dunno

5:28 That would be part of the conversation

David Burns 5:29 PM if it’s the latter then I am not sure we would want them. It’s amazingly nice but the maintenance burden, potentially, doesnt feel worth it

Simon Stewart 5:30 PM Indeed

5:30 But it would be nice to have some “official” Go bindings.

adamgoucher 5:30 PM i know nothing about go, but i feel like the bar for any binding to be included in the main project; is it maintained? is it idomatically correct for the language? is there not a competing, more obvious one to incorporate?

Simon Stewart 5:30 PM Turns out that people like them

5:30 s/them/the language/

Diego Molina 5:30 PM seems it is worthy to give the conversation a go

5:30 who would like to drive that conversation with Miki?

Simon Stewart 5:31 PM It’s pretty dormant right now, but is that due to being complete? My understanding is “yes” Nothing that I’m aware of

5:31 puts finger on nose

adamgoucher 5:31 PM sounds like ‘you are a go’ for the conversation about go. as it were

Simon Stewart 5:31 PM Not me

5:31 Yeah, I think it’s a conversation that’s well worth having

Diego Molina 5:32 PM I can see from a quick look that the go bindings have vendor stuff in it, for example it has the ability to use Sauce Labs out of the box

5:33 even if I work for Sauce, we need to see all those things in case we want to merge them

Simon Stewart 5:34 PM Aye

Diego Molina 5:36 PM I know how the Grid works (in general), but I still have black spots in my head when talking about bindings we need someone who knows how bindings should work and do a check on the go bindings

adamgoucher 5:37 PM sounds like ‘we think having the go bindings in the main project is cool, but currently the people in the channel right now dont have enough interest (or knowledge) to drive the conversation’

5:38 likely also have to talk to sfc about rights transfer and such. though the existing licensing could cover it

Diego Molina 5:39 PM maybe we bring the topic back in 2 weeks and see how people feel?

Simon Stewart 5:40 PM SGTM

adamgoucher 5:41 PM ok. i didnt have anything else? did anyone else?

Simon Stewart 5:42 PM I’ve got other meetings to attend, so nowt from me

adamgoucher 5:43 PM taking silence from the rest as a no. thanks everyone!

Diego Molina 5:43 PM Thank you all!

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